| Author |
 Topic  |
|
JF
3080 Posts |
|
|
Jeff
735 Posts |
 Posted - May 04 2024 : 21:19:25
|
| Thanks John, but, could you be more specific? IF I've screwed up I'll try to fix it. What is it? |
 |
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2024 : 10:57:45
|
Sorry--you did nothing wrong. I am just perplexed by the winning times in these road races.
They are so slow.
19:06 wins Tulip 5k
It's like that here (Albany), too. I still want to know why this is the case. I know we have good runners out there; why aren't they racing more?
John Furgele |
|
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2024 : 10:59:37
|
I ran a 3 mile race last week in 21:30 and was 3rd overall. I was embarrassed!
John Furgele |
|
|
|
RunnerXC
265 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2024 : 19:39:18
|
John,
Grand Island half and USATF Niagara 10 mile championships were this weekend. Plenty of faster runners there. Boston Marathon few weeks ago.
Not every race going to have 15:45 winner |
|
|
|
peteg2
33 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2024 : 20:31:02
|
Exactly Bob, I don't know why he keeps bringing this up. A lot of the faster "open" guys are still running open collegiate meets during the spring (Bucknell, UB, etc). Then there are the Buffalo ROTY races and USATF Niagara races... With the Grand Island Half and Mountain Goat, what competitive runners are circling the Holland Tulip 5K on their schedule this weekend? Not a knock on the race at all, it looks like they had a very successful community 5K and those types of things are so important in getting the community out and active!
Also, HS teams are in season and college teams are still in season, so none of those athletes are participating in road races, which takes out a good portion of the competitive population. |
|
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2024 : 09:36:55
|
I bring it up because it is the norm now. Yes, few races will have 15:45 winners, but look at the times; the winning times are embarrassingly slow.
The GBTC Half had just 5 runners break 6 minute mile pace. That's a low number.
Where are the runners who train!
Facts are facts.
John Furgele |
|
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
|
|
millar1987
215 Posts |
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2024 : 10:44:33
|
Well--they are not permeating to the local road races, are they? Lots of runners out there, very few runners who train to race.
That's okay, but it is the current trend.
Can't deny this.
John Furgele |
|
|
|
zFg
12 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2024 : 13:22:31
|
Is it already time for the annual “JF complains about the local running scene” thread again? Seems to be a little early in the year. I could list off all the obvious reasons. races being $50, newer training mindsets regarding frequent racing, better opportunities outside of Buffalo, a high density of races in the area. Maybe a better question is, why should you care? Or why does it even matter? So what if a race is won in 19:07. Maybe that person ran a huge PR and it’s a really big deal to them. Maybe that person was 60 years old and ran a really great age graded time. there’s more to a result than a number on a clock
There’s a lot to be happy for regarding the running scene right now. There has been a huge running boom post pandemic. Races are bigger and better than ever. I think that is huge reason to celebrate, seeing so many people getting out, many of them first time runners! It’s a huge success story. So what if there aren’t 5 guys at sub 15 duking it out at the Holland Tulip 5k. Even if there were, so what? A lot of other cities have these kind of races regularly, and it doesn’t make Buffalos races any worse. All of the people who run races around here are fine people regardless of talent. Maybe instead of complaining, do something about it. Heck, ask some of those guys who are running 15:45 why they don’t show at races more often. Then, maybe, you might get it. And I would love that if that happened
"If you ain't first you're last" |
|
|
|
peteg2
33 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2024 : 15:34:20
|
| Hey John, since you brought up random results from 1997 to compare to a race this year, have you compared 1997 as a whole to 2023? Which year had more sub 15 times? sub 16? Which year had more races won under 16 minutes? How about the most competitive 5k from 97 compared to the most competitive 5k from 2023..how do they stack up (men and women). Most competitive marathons? I already know the answer, this is simply a learning exercise. |
|
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2024 : 09:58:46
|
Contrary to popular belief, I am not complaining. I am trying to get some thoughtful discussion as to why this is the case.
If 19:07 is somebody's PR, that's great, but it should not win a local 5K race.
Buffalo Turkey Trots--30th place times
1987: 26.05
1997: 27.51
2023: 28.03
I agree that the cost of racing is prohibitive. Too many 5K races costing $40 is ridiculous.
I just would like to know how runners train today. maybe they're running fewer days, fewer miles and doing other things in addition to running, which helps with overall fitness, but not racing fitness.
The best way to get racing fit is to run miles, 6 days per week minimum.
Again, I am looking for reasons, but if you want to take the JF is complaining angle, go right ahead. Though that's not the case, go that way if you'd like.
I also don't know if races are bigger and better than ever. Many WNY stalwarts have seen participation drop.
John Furgele |
|
|
|
millar1987
215 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2024 : 20:48:30
|
| The 2023 Turkey Trot was a slow, tough headwind year. I don't know the weather in 1997 but if 2023 was only 12 seconds slower, then I would guess that 2023 was the better year. |
|
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2024 : 00:33:39
|
Not a chance 23 was better
John Furgele |
|
|
|
peteg2
33 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2024 : 12:55:08
|
This is a really stupid measure to look at, BUT...
Turkey Trot 30th place finishers:
2022 - 27:08
2021 - 27:57
2019 - 27:06
2018 - 27:28
2017 - 27:18
1997 - 27:51 (notice how this is slower than most recent years)
If you look at the 1997 road racing scene as a whole and compare it to 2023, 2023 produced faster top end times, more races won with sub 15, more races won with sub 16. What is the big difference you are seeing? It is simply that there are more races to look at now, so naturally many of those races are going to be uncompetitive. The competitive runners currently run the USATF Niagara Series, PGXC series, and major marathons/half marathons (not local). You tend to not look at these races, but instead look at races that were competitive back in the day. For most of these events, there is no longer a competitive incentive for the area's top runners.
I will agree that there was a bit of a drop off from the 80s, but this drop off occurred back in the 90s which was 30 years ago. To continue to bring this up like it's some new trend and bring forward anecdotal evidence is tiring for everyone. If you put together some actual data on historical performance and trends, maybe you will find the answers you are looking for. |
|
|
|
JF
3080 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2024 : 01:05:59
|
The winning times for today's races are slower than ever before
John Furgele |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
I don't get it
